Tatiana Țîbuleac: ‘In Eastern Europe we are not very good at coming to terms with trauma’

Tatiana Țîbuleac, born in 1978 in Chișinău, Moldova, is a journalist and writer living in Paris. Her books have won prizes in Romania and Spain.  In 2019, she won the 2019 European Union Literary Prize for Grădina de sticlă (The Glass Garden). Voxeurop published her contribution to the series Archipelago USSR.

Your novel, Vara în care mama a avut ochii verzi (“The Summer My Mother Had Green Eyes”), is a very European story about a family of Polish migrants who have settled in France. Why didn't you write a story about your compatriots?

Perhaps because I wrote this book in Paris, shortly after I myself had moved there. I was also a migrant and everything seemed very cosmopolitan to me. In your first years abroad, you want to be a person who comes from everywhere, more than from one place in particular. The novel grew out of my estrangement, geographical and otherwise, from Moldova and Chișinău, the place where I was born and became a writer. These are themes I return to often, including in my second novel, The Glass Garden. Summer is a book I feel very close to, even after The Glass Garden, the novel I am most often identified with. I feel very close to that universe because it is a story that could have happened anywhere, to anyone. I don't know if it is a European story, it is a story without a place. I wanted to create characters who were neither poor nor completely unhappy nor with obvious problems, to whom all their misfortunes happen one after the other and not all at once.

According to the latest census (2024), the population in Moldova has fallen below 2.5 million, almost one million fewer people than twenty years ago. Why do Moldovans emigrate?

Moldovans have been emigrating for at least 30 years. It is very important to talk about the differences between the first waves of migrants and the subsequent ones. They emigrate largely because of poverty, but not the poverty of the 1990s, when salaries were not paid and in the villages women left to be able to provide their children with food, clothes and school supplies.

People have always sought a better life, it is their right. Those who migrate today do so "with their papers in order", because they can afford to study abroad, because they know they will find work and adequate healthcare. This is another kind of migration, similar to that of other poorer European countries, like Spain, Italy and Greece.

The first wave of migrants was completely different, people left illegally and this, in half of the cases, meant being enslaved or becoming victims of human trafficking. Women ended up as prostitutes or were sold as such, victims of trafficking. This migration left deep wounds in Moldova. But one of the most painful, not yet comprehensively studied, was the migration that left many children behind without parents. That generation, who grew up without their mother or father, left to the sole care of their grandparents, siblings or older children, are now adults and are beginning to tell their story. There is deep sadness and suffering in those stories. Of course it would be better if no one were forced to emigrate, and everyone could live in comfort next to their parents and relatives. But I would not go so far as to demonise migration. It should be seen as a human right... I am a migrant, but I cannot say that I have fled my country. When and if Moldova joins the European Union, things will become more nuanced.

What role do the children who remained in Moldova play in society now? Did they end up leaving too?

Some have left the country, others have stayed and have not seen their mother, or both parents, since the age of 7 or 8. Can you imagine a child abandoned at that age growing up receiving only money, oranges, mobile phones, chewing gum, from his mother? What kind of adult does he become? We writers can speculate, but these are important stories that need to be told. Society does not benefit from this situation, these adults will always have a recurring trauma that we have yet to understand how to deal with. In Eastern Europe we are not very good at coming to terms with our traumas: violence, famine, deportations. We never talked about them, we preferred to move on and cover them up, sometimes to survive, and sometimes out of disinterest. But in both cases we are dealing with a generation that knows nothing about it. It's a serious thing for a nation to forget its past.

On 21 May 2023 you took part in a major pro-European demonstration in Chișinău where Moldova was declared to be part of Europe. Is this something you believe?

I believe in Europe, that Moldova's place is in Europe, and that Moldovans can be, and are, Europeans. Not only that, but the possibility of falling under the influence of Russia once more would be tragic. Even if I no longer live in my country and never return, I would not want to see it fall back under the yoke of Moscow. What is happening in Ukraine is clearly a scenario that could have happened last year in Moldova, if our neighbours had not resisted. I am European and would like my friends to be able to join the EU as well, without being forced to leave their lives in Moldova.

Moldova’s European journey officially began on 25 June with the start of EU accession talks. Is this a significant step?

Significant and of course difficult. We cannot say that 100 percent of Moldovans want to join Europe, there are those who vote for pro-Russian parties and do not condemn the war in Ukraine. But they have European passports or Romanian documents and benefit from all that Europe offers. I can only deplore this hypocritical attitude, of those who send their children to study in Europe, have health insurance or property in European countries, but condemn those who do not have these possibilities and are forced to experience what is happening in Ukraine.

However, this vile war has led to a very positive phenomenon in Moldova. The divisions between Russians, Romanians and Gagauzi that certain pro-Russian parties continue to foment no longer prevail. People have realised that bombs do not discriminate. If some people would like to be under Russia again, that is their right. And perhaps it is fair to say that Russia is not what it used to be either, and not all Russians are like Putin. In my case, I have no nostalgia for the past. I want Moldova to be part of the European Union.

Moldova welcomed around 100,000 Ukrainian citizens in the first months of the Russian invasion. What ties Moldovans to Ukraine?

Moldovans are connected to Ukraine in many ways. When Moldovans started to take holidays abroad, they always went to Ukraine. Odessa is a city close to my heart. I went to the seaside in Ukraine with my family, not Romania. We are bound by friendships, businesses, families, memories, films, and a sense of humour. This country has always been very close to us. That is why I feel bad to see Romanians or other Europeans say "well, after all, the truth is in the middle", or "both sides are guilty in this war", or "after all, Ukrainians are Russians". No, that is not the case, the truth is not in the middle, it is instead very obvious and painful.

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The truth is that Russia is exterminating Ukraine. Perhaps it is arrogant to be proud that your country has done something for others, but for me the Moldovan example is extraordinary. Joining forces in the face of danger, and the way people have mobilised by welcoming the Ukrainians, makes me proud of my country.  

On 20 October there will be presidential elections, but also the referendum on EU membership. Maia Sandu's re-election is not a foregone conclusion, due to Russian interference and disinformation. Can young Moldovans make a difference?

Of course. But everyone can make a difference. As you say, there is manipulation. There are obvious financial interests. There are those who want to cling to the past at all costs. It is more about nostalgia, and there are many in Moldova who are paid to feed that nostalgia, and misinform. It pains me when it is intellectuals who choose to do this, because that was what happened in Russia. When intellectuals became part of the propaganda machine, everything went downhill. People in the creative sector with obvious talent must ask themselves what they should be doing with that talent. I am confident that Moldova will make the right choice.

How is Moldova viewed in Europe? Do we care enough?

Let's face it: Europeans do not know much about Moldova. Many have only just discovered where it is on the map. The same goes for Ukraine. Moldovans have been in the news for years for theft, human trafficking, prostitution. All this does not instil much confidence, and Europeans will not immediately be charmed by this new addition to the EU. But this has happened with all countries belonging to another cultural space. With time things have more or less settled down. I believe that Moldovans can flourish in the EU, respect its rules, and make their own particular contribution.

Is Moldovan EU membership a ticket to reunification with Romania?

I don't know, I'm not a politician. Given the current conditions, it seems a complicated prospect to me. In fact, it has always been complicated. I would have liked it to happen, we've missed so many opportunities. I would have liked Romania and Moldova to be reunited, but the chances of it happening now are even slimmer than before. Who knows, maybe politicians will find other expedients and it will happen.

What ties you to Romania? Do you feel like a Moldovan writer or a Romanian writer?

I have always presented myself as a Romanian writer. There is only one Romanian literature. Although I am often referred to as a Moldovan author, I have never renounced "Romanian writer from Moldova". If I omit "Moldovan", that leaves "Romanian writer".  If Moldova becomes a member state of the EU, I don't think there will be an immediate transition whereby I come to call myself "Moldovan". There is a feeling of tenderness that binds me to Romanian culture. We Bessarabians have a sensitive nature. I like being a Romanian writer.

Do you feel like a European writer?

No, because I don't think there is a European identity. For me, Europe means being able to write in one's own language and being understood by those who write in their own language. I know authors in Paris who write in Italian, Hungarian, Bulgarian, and who consider themselves European. In my case it is different. I don't know if living in Europe makes me a European writer. I think I am a Romanian writer.

What is your relationship with the Russian language?

The relationship changes depending on what happens in the name of that language. At the same time, it is part of me. I cannot say that I never learned it, that I did not grow up with it, that I do not like it, or that it never meant all that much to me. The Russian language has been all these things. I have been deeply influenced by Russian writers, and there are still films in Russian that I love. I have Russian friends. It is very important to make the distinction between the Putin regime and the Russian language. While I must admit that I have not read in Russian for a long time now, it is not because I want to burn books. That will never happen. They are the books of my childhood.

I also keep the Romanian books written in Cyrillic, as they are part of my life. Precisely because Russian was so important to me, I live in a complicated and confusing period. These are very subjective questions that not everyone can answer in the same way. I know writers in Moldova who have given up the Russian language altogether, at least that is what they say. I don't think it will be the same in my case.

This article is published within the Come Together collaborative project.